How a Brand With Purpose Challenged an Entire Industry.

“It is impossible to create something new. The only thing we can do is to offer the same, just a little different.”

Save the Cat! By Blake Snyder

Imagine eking it out in the mailroom, dedicating countless hours as an assistant, and getting staffed as an agent at one of the top agencies in the world. You’ve made it. You’re one of the select few to join the ranks of talent representation agents in Hollywood.

Your career is gaining momentum, and you are consistently getting bigger and better clients. With a path laid before you by agents’ past, your future looks bright, but something doesn’t sit right. Would you trade your high-paying and historied position for becoming an entrepreneur?

On January 1st, 2010, Adam Lavine, Bill Weinstein, and Bryan Besser did precisely that. They left their roles as top-tier agents at one of the largest agencies in Hollywood to redefine what an agency can do. They felt called to change the game, and just like the artist’s role, the talent agents vie to represent, they could no longer draw inside the lines.

They took big bets on faith and a gut feeling. They created Verve Talent and Literary Agency.

The trio took a high dive. It had been twenty-five years since a new Hollywood agency opened its doors. The consensus was that they were over their heads. They’d be looking for jobs soon enough. More than a decade later, Verve is leaving a lasting mark on the business of representation. They have staying power, and they’ve only just begun. Verve is an agency with a conscience. They aspire to do good while doing well.

We sat down with Bryan Besser, one of the founders of Verve, to discuss the process of cultivating a new agency model, one with purpose, in an industry where results and dollars take center stage. Voices Heard became their tagline. Here’s what he has to say.

Squared: You, Bill, and Adam had a good thing going for you at WME. Why did you decide to start Verve? Wouldn’t it have been easier to stay at a big agency and coast?

Bryan: I can’t survive in an environment where I can’t have a voice. [I can’t] survive in an environment where I can’t affect change. Sometimes it’s okay to think that you can affect change and try to affect change, and not always affect change. But if we can try to make that effort, you may fail, but at least you’re able to try. [At a big agency], it was tough to affect change on any level of things. [You can work] where you’re just showing up, you’re just pushing a little something a little bit closer to here and a little closer to here, and, and your voice isn’t heard. My personality can’t survive in that environment. It’s easier not to affect change. Don’t create ripples, and don’t put your face in the spotlight. [But to affect change] is a more challenging path to follow. The other thing was that I’d sit there [behind] all the glass walls, looking out the window and see all this energy and people and life. I would turn back to my desk and notice that the outside world influenced nothing I was doing. So it just became this growing, increasing struggle I had internally.

Squared: Were you afraid to make the change?

Bryan: We got to a point where we needed to leave, which is a terrifying proposition. [To] leave comfort and security and a very established brand, for something that at the time no one had done successfully in 25+ years, as far as agenting is concerned, is scary. It’s that fear of when you open the door, and you step through, that a giant black hole is just going to suck you in. [Just] because you thought you could do something that hadn’t been done in a long time? Who were you to believe that?

Squared: What made you believe you could be successful?

Bryan: I didn’t think I had any other choice. It took two years, probably even longer talking about it, thinking about it, and getting to a place we had hoped. And the greatest fear was to muster the courage to climb up the diving board and stand there but never jump. That thought kept me up at night for years. And I didn’t want to be that person that’s too afraid to jump. But I couldn’t jump for myself. We had to understand how we would share our ambitions with like-minded people who would see it the same way. Most importantly, for clients that would understand that it was also good, if not better for them, to take the plunge with us that way. We believed that we were better for them. [At a time when] the world kept changing, and more prominent was better. More significant business, bigger government, there was this obsession with size. [We believed] we were able to do it and be successful. And because clients recognized that too and said, “that speaks to me, I’m going to give it a shot.”

Squared: How did you manage the transition?

Bryan: Imagine launching a business where you have zero guaranteed revenue because you don’t know who will come with you. And you’re just going to bet that you can sell hard enough, and people will join you over time. [Initially] we had to go to probably only a handful of clients to start the agency on January 4th, 2009, and hope that somehow we’d be able to survive long enough. I remember preaching that we had to endure year one, break-even two, and year three, get into profit. So, for a while, we just thought about keeping the lights on? Yeah, keep showing up every day and survive. And because you can’t see too far in the future, you have to be able to do one day at a time. Otherwise, it feels a little too insurmountable.

Squared: Was there a moment when you woke up that morning on January 4th, 2009, and said: “What have I done?”

Bryan: Absolutely! But, by the way, I didn’t wake up. I never went to sleep. I remember walking my dog. I had sold my house in Venice and sold my car. All I had in life was some savings, a wife, a cat, a dog, and a Prius. And that was it. We were renting a terrible apartment in the Oakwoods. [The type] where the crew stays when they’re shooting something. It was still dark out, which is always lonely and creepy at four o’clock in the morning. And, I never went to sleep. And I remember when it was finally time to get dressed and do it. I was terrified.

Squared: How did you find the courage to go out and do it?

Bryan: We’re lucky if you have that person in your life that’s there for you. That person who sees you have this one moment of indecision. It just happens. Everybody experiences hesitation and fear, and you need that shove. That person was my wife, Paige. She looked at me and gave me a sharp “There you go.”

Squared: I remember some of your early clients mentioning that the talk around town was somewhat hostile towards the three of you? How did you manage all that noise?

Bryan: Like in all things in life, negativity will come at you from all directions. There is nothing you can do about that, but you can control what you do with it. It’s easy to personalize it and create self-doubt. I was lucky because I wasn’t alone, and I could talk about it with Bill and Adam and absorb it. And then, most importantly, it was always our job to laugh at it and poke fun at it.

Part of the problem was how do you control the message out there, right? And because the internet is the internet, it’s easy for people to spin the story:

• “They were fired.”
• “They had no choice.”
• “They have no idea what they are doing.”
• “They are movie guys in a TV world.”

We had everything stacked against us, and you can’t believe that I’m smarter than everybody or more strategic. The fact is that I’m not as aggressive as Ari Emanuel. I’m not as good-looking as Patrick Whitesell, and I don’t have as much history in the television business Rick Rosen, and we knew that they would be our competitors. How could I sit across from your potential clients and say I was a better choice for them? And the truth is, I don’t know if I’m better than other agents. But that’s not the point. The point was at every step of the way is, we’re just different. They do what they do. And it works well. And we want to do what we want to do. We’re not suitable for everybody. But for those whom we are the right fit for, it’s going to be the most incredible ride they’ve ever taken. I believe it. Be it people we may want to hire, clients, or partners. It’s okay if we’re not suitable for you. That’s a unique position of strength.

Squared: What is it that you offer that makes you different?

Bryan: At the time, three or four significant agencies controlled the entire business, creating a considerable level of insecurity amongst clients. We might even see agents representing so many clients that clients wondered if anyone cared about them? The joke used to be: “we represent 385 people named Jack. How would you like to be the 386th Jack on that list?” What makes Verve different is that we offer a human connection, and we offer passion. We offer 100% of us, appetizing to people who felt like they didn’t have a bond or a connection anymore to their agency or their agents. We want to make sure our clients have their voices heard.

Squared: How did you get that message out?

Bryan: We knew that we had a story to tell and a narrative. And we were going to make sure that every single person on the planet heard that narrative. So every day, we would get into Bill’s car at the time because it was the most gas efficient. It was a white Volkswagen Rabbit — we called it the marshmallow. And all day, we drove around to studios and networks and production companies and financers, whoever would meet with us and share our story. We knew that the most important thing for our success was to create rooting interest. We needed people to root for us. Now, that’s not saying that they believed in us. Hopefully, they would say: “hey, I like them. I hope they find success.” And that tide of goodwill was the single most important thing for us. And how we were able to fuel that was by being human, showing humility, showing confidence, but not arrogance.

Squared: How did you choose the people to bring in to work at Verve?

Bryan: Historically, agencies are built based on the model of what one needs to be as an agent. No matter the shape or size, you either fit into that model, or you won’t survive at the company. You had to be alpha, for the most part, male and wear blue suits — a conveyor belt of doppelgangers. I saw so many people that I loved to try and struggle to fit into the confines of that design, and get spit out and be miserable and either get fired or leave. So, from day one, we decided we did not want another person like us. Let’s find people that are as different from us as possible to round out our perspective. Because we represent artists, and artists are individual, diverse, interesting people from every walk of life. And because each artist is unique, how is it possible that there’s only one type of agent for every kind of artist? It doesn’t make any sense. It cannot be one-size-fits-all. That was one of those hundreds of questions I asked myself that motivated me to create something new. So, for us, we needed all shapes and sizes, backgrounds, diversity, origins, essence, and point of view to speak to global, universal artists. Then, we chose people, not based on shape, size, or look. The field of commonality was the spirit, the energy, and the ambition. And what we found, we attracted the kind of people who naturally shared a similar value system and same spirit for adventure. It’s a self-correcting mechanism. To this day, with almost 85 employees, I can’t believe we haven’t had that rotten apple.

Squared: Does the same principle apply to clients?

Bryan: Yeah. There are surprises you get along the way that you didn’t think about before. The clients that come to the agency, for the most part, are the ones that have a point of view and are the most confident in what they do. If you’re not confident in your skills as a writer, director, producer, talent, whatever it may be, that insecurity doesn’t align with joining a startup or a growing business. It speaks to be at the fanciest building, with the fanciest clients, and the most history. That’s the safest. Our brand appeals to those with confidence and voice, but they also know they can’t do everything alone. And those are the healthiest kind of relationships. So it’s once again that idea of a self-correcting mechanism. The voices that aren’t confident get filtered out; don’t sign with us or go somewhere else. And we keep building on the voices that believe in themselves. And it’s so much more rewarding. It’s a luxury.

Squared: How did you show you were different as a brand?

Bryan: Every step of the way, we wanted to show we were different. The location of our office had to be different from the other agencies. Let’s not be a three-letter acronym or an abbreviation. That principle led us through most of our decisions.

Squared: Verve has taken positions that broke ranks with the industry, such as siding with writers regarding packaging fees, being the first to give raises to assistants, or reducing partners’ compensation and not eliminating jobs during the pandemic. The consistency in your approach is making Verve more influential in the industry. How does it feel to grow from a new kid on the block to an influential brand?

Bryan: Well, I love to believe that we’re influencing things. The irony of it is that our most significant marketing moments for our company and our brand didn’t come from months of strategy or specific initiatives. They came from making the right decision at the right time, based on a simple idea that we can do good while doing well, and let’s make the right decision because it’s the right decision as a human being. It’s the right way to treat people. It’s the right thing to do, period. So, paying our assistants more than any other agency was not about competing with any other agencies. It was the right thing to do. What they do daily and how much sacrifice made it a no-brainer. The same was to sit down with the Writers Guild, understand their challenges, and see if we could address them. It was black and white and the right thing to do. Those decisions that people like to speak about are a reflection of our brand and our culture. It’s who we are. As I said, that didn’t require any training. It didn’t need a decade of experience or real brand strategy; it just had to do with the fact that we’re humans, and we will do the right thing right now. It’s so simple that you don’t overthink. And one of the reasons we did it was that our voice could be heard and affect change. We don’t have 100 years of institutionalized thoughts, practice, or indentured experience holding us back. And, because of that, we can make intelligent decisions in a practical, powerful way. It’s a luxury for us. I think about it all the time.

Squared: What is the future for Verve, and what changes you want to make in the world?

Bryan: That’s a great question. It has to be something straightforward. We have to look at the entrepreneurial client’s goals and understand how to help them build a business with a voice and adapt to how the industry has changed. Thanks to technology, stories and audiences became more and more global. So, we see ourselves representing storytellers from all over the world and helping them create a path to make their careers successful. So, as they rise, we rise together — all boats rise with the tide. We’re going to continue to invest in voices we believe in and help them succeed, finding a path to success, being that engine for them, the architects, and the strategists. We also want to be the shoulder to lean on and a hand to high five. That’s the way the business continues to grow.

We had a fear for a while to talk about growing and becoming what we loathe. Are we going to become what you said you never wanted to be and what we sell against? And the answer was always: “I hope not.” But I believe we won’t. Simply because of the way that people have learned to think within our agency. We have grown, drank the kool-aid, and our team sees the world in how we see the world. I don’t think about acquiring different businesses. Instead, we look at our clients and ask: “what do they need to become successful?” “What do we need to continue to build their brands?” We got into publishing because many of our clients are writers; they want to do more publishing. And we got into publishing because IP is essential. There are natural extensions of our core business that will support the core business. It’s always about that core business.

Squared: Final question. What kind of advice do you have for entrepreneurs out there?

Bryan: When we think about the difference between those who succeed in creating a business and those who don’t, we can’t find much difference in who they are, their level of experience, skill level, or talent. The only significant difference is that some enter the diving board and jump, and others don’t. And when you look at success stories and talk to successful people, you will see that it’s not that they were smarter than everybody else or had an idea that would change the world. I’m talking about people who just took the jump into the unknown, ready to face what it could bring. It’s just that. Often, we look at someone who created a successful business and thought we could never do that. There is always something: I’m not as bright, I’m not as aggressive, I’m not as talented, I’m not as whatever. That is the most defeatist way to look at it, which has nothing to do with success. It merely comes down to people who do it and people who don’t. When people ask me if I am surprised about how great Verve is, my answer is: No, I’m not surprised. I probably wouldn’t have done it if I didn’t believe that it would be this way. And I still am fighting every day because we’re not where we want to be. And that’s okay. That’s fuel.

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